Interview: Paul Waller of OHHMS

Interview: Paul Waller of OHHMS
Interviewer: Robbie Maguire

OHHMS are fast becoming the leaders of the British underground metal scene. With their new album set for release on Holy Roar Records in June, our Robbie sat down with front man Paul Waller to talk about his own interview experiences on his own podcast, the album and much more,

The Razor’s Edge: Do you still get intimated by interviews Paul? I will lay it out on the line, I am an OHHMS fan and couple that with the fact this is my first interview, naturally I am nervous. You must appreciate what it’s like; you don’t want to forget anything, not missing any notes etc. Surely there must be guys and girls that you still interview where you think what am I going to do?

Paul: Yeah, it doesn’t matter what size the band is, it’s always weird. There’s nothing that prepares you for it. Whether you know people or not, sometimes I was taking jobs where I hadn’t even heard of the band, just because I wanted to get my flow going. Honestly, it never became easier. It’s not like playing live. It’s always a ballache, I really hated being the guy that’s doing those calls. On the other end, it’s pretty good.

The Razor’s Edge: I suppose now with the new album you are going to be faced with loads of it. Are you the main guy for interviews? Or is it you and Chainy?

Paul: I am the one that everyone wants to talk to. They (the band) would so love for people to interview them and I am always like “yeah, no problem we will get that sorted”. But, it tends to be that the singer is the focus. I think you get a lot of weird stuff and odd information from like…drummer. I always love to interview a drummer cos they are weird people.

The Razor’s Edge: They must see everything from a totally different light anyway. Also you’re probably a bit cagey as well. You’ve got the interests of the band at heart and I am sure the band wouldn’t want to say anything detrimental, but you’ve got to make sure you are all singing from the same song sheet.

Paul: On tour its difficult cos I am always saving my voice so I don’t want to do interviews on tour. It’s just random who does it and sometimes we can’t publish it as they say so many things that they shouldn’t be saying about tours we got coming up or album release dates or podcasts, so yes it never ends.

The Razor’s Edge: Surely you must be the guy that came up with each of the song titles on the new album?

Paul: Yes you are completely right, and the band doesn’t know.

The Razor’s Edge: Ok so here the thing, I am not sure what I can and can’t write or publish so if there’s anything you want left out then I will honour it.

Paul: Everything, you go for everything. I want to know if they actually read these things. This new album ‘Close’ it’s autobiographical and it’s about escaping from domestic abuse when I was growing up so the whole thing was what I found comfort in. One of those things was my Kiss albums. That’s why I’ve used a Kiss album for every song title and the funniest thing is was the producer knew it when we were recording but the band themselves, every single member has no idea. So I was just getting away with this the whole time. I reckon when it comes out and they realise, they are going to be cool with it but there was no way that during the writing process had I said that’s what this is that they would have gone with it.

The Razor’s Edge: Are they ‘Kiss’ fans themselves?

Paul: They hate Kiss and I hate Kiss. I will be honest with you I hate them now. As I say it was part of that growing up thing and there is something magical about those times when you can escape to your favourite band or movies. On tour if I am in charge of the stereo and I slip a Kiss song in, just forget about it. The only band they react to worse is Biffy Clyro. They are the only band that gets a stronger negative reaction than Kiss.

The Razor’s Edge: So they wouldn’t be happy listening to ‘Meitei’ (oriental soundscapes) [Paul played on his podcast recently].

Paul: No, they’d be bang into that. In fact I did play a bit of that. They don’t mind a bit of weird avant-gardness and they don’t mind some straight pop or rock but there are certain bands that bring on the cringe for them. There was such a love for Biffy back in their early days with the members and when they got their commercial success they are furious with it and I love it all. I love a lot of music, takes a lot for me to dislike something but Kiss is one of them, if I put it on I get “What the fuck is this Paul”? I get the bollocking.

The Razor’s Edge: I saw a recent post saying you were on a two and half hour car journey and were 30 minutes into someone’s Clutch playlist. Who is the Clutch fan?

Paul: That’s Mark. Here’s the thing. We do those journeys on tour and you have to stay sane during those times being together in the van. So one way is there will be someone’s choice and one way back will be someone else’s choice. That’s pretty much how it rolls. It’s the only way we can survive. Except when Chainy has his choice, cos that always going to be Lightning Bolt and that’s a headache.

The Razor’s Edge: Someone asked you where you would go back to in any moment in time in an interview I saw, it might have been one of H [Talking Bollocks] podcasts. I think you said about going to the classic Kiss era. I was intrigued cos although I am not a Kiss fan, I can appreciate what they have done for music and that for some of those big rock bands in America growing up they must have been such a big thing. Like for you as well, that escapism that they gave you. But being able to get Daniel [Sargent - Paul’s co-host on Different Times podcast] on side and appreciate and get into [Kiss album] ‘The Elder’ was quite something.

Paul: Within Kiss fandom ‘The Elder’ is the one that there’s not a lot of love for. Even if you are the hardcore ’Kiss’ fan. It’s weird why he picked up that he liked that one. For me, it’s not particularly about the songs and you can say this about ‘Kiss’ or anyone else, the production so flat it doesn’t jump out at you, even with decent headphones or sound system, nothing leaps out at you it’s just there in the background and I hate music like that.

The Razor’s Edge: Was that a big thing with ‘Close’, the production? Who produced it?

Paul: We have gone to the same guy for every single thing we’ve ever done. Even though the opportunity has come up for us to go elsewhere. The guy is called Ian Sadler and he works at LMA Studios. We first went there cos it was close, and we know Ian. What he did for me and my vocals was incredible and he does it every time. He will not let me go till I’ve got something spot on and I’ve never had that before. He would actually train me when I am there. If I say I don’t think I can get something, he will know if I can get it. It’s really odd. With the band I say can we always go back there. It just helps me no end. With this album I found stuff so much easier with notes to hit or little tricks I can do with my voice that I could never do before and it’s all because of Ian. He just takes me that one step further and that is why we continue to go to him

The Razor’s Edge: Speaking of the vocals, I don’t meant to sound disrespectful, but there is so much more range within your vocals here than on previous records. That’s not to belittle previous records at all. What I mean is it seems you are pushing your vocals right to their very limits, to the point where they are almost right on the edge of letting go. Like the screamy, shouty stuff, it’s almost as though you’ve gone as far as you can go and you can properly feel where that scream is coming from. The cleaner more emotive vocals seem to create more feeling as well. There is a real range within the work. Also on the backing vocals as well. There is such an anguished scream on the end of ‘Destroyer’. Who is that? Its great.

Paul: That’s Chainy. I much prefer the clean vocals. I don’t think my shouty vocals are as good as my clean. I can get much tighter notes. Unfortunately Ian and the rest of the band don’t think my clean voice is a good and as welcoming as my shouty voice which I don’t like as much but it does suit the songs better. So I really keep trying to use that clean voice of mine but I maybe it doesn’t suit OHHMS as much. So I do get as much of it in there as I can. I get what they mean afterwards though. I always feel like I wish I was singing this cleaner and less gruff. When you get the music home to listen to that night I get it. That’s so much better.

I worry all the time, cos we’ve got to take it out on stage. Cos of the way I bang or shake my head I can’t keep anything in my ears. The amount of earplugs that I have lost, maybe two or three sets a night can get really expensive, but they help me pitch. If I get the wrong pitch on a scream or a bellow, it can really fuck my voice up for the next night. So I am always conscious of that when I am in the studio. It’s a weird thing and every singer will tell you the same. You need total control or else you are going to regret it the next night. I’ve tried sound monitor plug in for my ears and again they just won’t stay in, even expensive molded ones. I am sort of just at the mercy of the sound man and the monitors most of the time. I am always conscious in the studio to make sure what you are going to hit is not a complete one off cos if it is I am not going to be able to do it live.

The Razor’s Edge: Because the live show you do is such a captivating show. I saw you at Uprising, and was blown away by that short set you played in that smaller room. The live aspect is in some degree on ‘Close’. Without obviously sounding like it’s recorded in the venue. I think the producer should be applauded for that cos a lot of your qualities as a band are in just totally blowing away anyone that’s on a bill with you and that really comes across. But you are not losing any of those intricate and delicate moments on the album. Some of the most haunting and uplifting stuff that I've heard for a long time.

Paul: I am glad you’ve picked up on it cos as well as all the heavy stuff, especially with Stu in the band now on the main lead guitar he’s always doubting himself whether he should present something floaty and nice or uplifting or major key to the band. I am like whatever you’re comfortable with as you’re an equal member of the band. When he does it just lights up the room. There’s tranquility in it, its uplifting, powerful and emotional. There are so few people within the level we are at that can do what he can do. We’ve really lucked out.

The Razor’s Edge: About halfway through ‘Revenge’ there is beautiful guitar section but the one I am hoping that you’re going to say is Stu doing is the guitar just after the intro to ‘Unplugged’ the final song. Its total dreamlike, so uplifting. I could listen to that on Loop. It’s staggering.

Paul: It’s weird the way we write. The first song is a Mark song, ‘Revenge’ is a Stu song and then the whole second side is Chainy, the bass player. How he brings stuff to the band is now he will present a whole song but just the bassline and maybe a guitar lick. It’s down to the other guys to get together and hammer it out. Its Individual skill with Chainy’s songs because they could go anywhere. When the other guys present a song including Max on drums cos, he’ll present a whole song as well. There will be everything laid out, but with Chainy it’s just the bassline and everyone has to get on top of that so it’s really interesting the way it goes. I love band practice more than playing live. It’s so much fun. This lockdown is doing my head in.

The Razor’s Edge: How do the lyrics get worked in?

Paul: I am the only lyric writer and they come in at the very end of everything. On ‘Close’ it was incredibly late as I re wrote loads.

The Razor’s Edge: Not being a musician I am fascinated how it all works behind the closed doors of a practice room. It sounds like people bring stuff to the table; do you get a lot of Improvisation going on?

Paul: It’s rare, really rare that they start improvising. I think we’ve written one song like that and that was the second half of ‘Revenge’ where it goes into that classic rock piece. Once we’ve played that for an hour we are like ’that’s great’ let’s hammer it down so we can sort it out into a kind of Fleetwood Mac vibe as in ‘The Chain’ where the first part is the song and second half is the instrumental . In all honesty they’ll present a whole song and we will go through it, if we like it, it sticks if we don’t it gets binned. There are no egos about it as well; no one gets bummed out, cos you know if it’s going to be shit or not. Luckily we’ve rarely chucked stuff out and looking back on the records I am glad that everything that’s been presented on the album has stayed on the album.

The Razor’s Edge: So ‘Flaming Youth' and ‘Strange Ways’ the more ambient and experimental songs was it a surprise when they came in with them?

Paul: They already had these ideas floating about. Max did ‘Flaming Youth’ and my ask of him was just think of yourself as a child, think of yourself as losing innocence and create a soundscape. That’s as vague as was. With Chainy I asked that that innocence was gone, you know you are never going to get it back and you don’t know where to go in the future. That’s what ‘Strange Ways’ was. Those were the briefs and I think they both came really well to the table.

The Razor’s Edge: It’s a compelling listen. I hope it gets shared to all the people that should be hearing this. You are a band that goes down well on a multiple of bills. In terms of heavy music in the UK there is such a vibrant scene, not just the Holy roar Roster, but thrash and death metal as well. I can’t speak for hard rock but there is so much music for people to listen to and to choose, it’s just what do you listen to? I hope that a lot of people will pick up on this album cos it’s fantastic and needs to be shared.

Paul: I appreciate that. I hope so to. I know we are not a gateway band. You have to want to listen to us to listen to us. I don’t know if it was a mistake but opening up the last album with a 22 minute song just seems maybe cruel to our audience. I remember before it came out and we played Arctangent festival and we did a half hour set, we played that song and another new song and then left. I looked at the audience who were looking at me as if to say ‘what are you doing’? I think we are our own worst enemy at times. If this or any of our music can come across to people and they feel something because of what we’ve done, that’s such a good feeling. The first time we had the audience sing stuff back to us was just like the stuff of dreams. Tingles. I didn’t expect that until it happened it’s one of those things you never expect but it’s a happy surprise. I don’t know if this will land with anyone else, I think that if that’s what you go for as a band then you are just going to muck it up straight away. You’ve just got to play for yourselves as I say that’s why playing in the practice is so important for me in that space with my friends and as soon as we know we’ve got a good song we just can’t wait to record it an get in out.

The Razor’s Edge: Was that a conscious decision then to not start this album with a 22 min song and limit the length of the songs? As there are generally shorter songs on this than previous albums.

Paul: Definitely. They are not particularly happy about it. It’s all down to me. I am sick of the long song. I really think with ‘Subjects’ we perfected the proggy long song. I think with ‘The Anchor’ on our second E.P we perfected the long doomy song. Everything I wanted with that format we had already achieved and there was no point in going back for me. I specifically said especially with the subject matter of this ‘Close’ with it being about Abuse you don’t want a 50 min album full of that. So I was like you need to make this a short and concise album, half an hour, make the songs shorter and make the riffs as big and catchy as possible but still keeping the subject matter serious. I think we’ve achieved it. I hope so, we will find out.

The Razor’s Edge: The top 40 pop podcast that you did, there was someone interviewing Sting and they asked him what his songs were about. He wouldn’t go into detail. After hearing that I thought I know your new album is autobiographical and I don’t expect you to go into too much detail or talk about what the songs are about but there are certain moments that come across as really deep and could come across as whatever people want them to mean. That’s the thing with music, its whatever it means to you when you are listening to it. There are really uplifting moments as well, moments of hope and contrast to the deep moments. It all encompasses a whole range of feelings when listening to it.

Paul: Yeah, exactly that and I do get disappointed when I find out that a song I thought was about such and such is actually about something completely different. That can be annoying and disappointing, the same with any art like a picture that you look at or a film that you watch, if you’ve taken something from that and then say the director or the songwriter says no its about that, I get it so that’s why I’ve gone straight from the off. Even when they were asking me what I wanted to do for a press release. I said I think we need to mention that its autobiographical and about domestic abuse and people can then know where its coming from, from that point of view rather than take what they can from it. But what I did was when it was finished, it was too harsh to listen to, it was too full on. So we went back and change a lot of words, a lot of the phrasing, just to make it a little bit more uplifting in places and not such a bummer of a listen. I am really glad we did that cos I've got to sing it every night. It was going to be a hard slog for me and the audience and I would never want that. I think you are right, there are lines in there now where you can take what you want from it. It's a bit of a mix and match. I think a lot of people will relate to it as it’s an album about struggle and getting through it and if you take it down to the brass of it that’s what it is about. But if you want to go deeper and can relate it to troubles you may have had in your youth, that’s there to.

The Razor’s Edge: Has there ever been an occasion when you are playing live and you are so engrossed in what you are doing, head banging, shaking your head or whatever, maybe the earphones have come out and you forget where you are and miss your cue with the band playing on looking and thinking, ‘is he going to sing his part’?

Paul: It’s happened only on the massive stages like when we played Bloodstock. Its weird cos I can’t pretend so I will be just standing there. Even when I’ve caught up, the vibe has gone and I am just standing there singing it and it will be just a robotic sort of thing. It’s only happened a couple of times in our whole career where I’ve lost the vibe and I am not feeling it. We are really lucky cos seeing as many bands as I have over the years you just know when someone is phoning it in and doesn’t want to be there. It’s the worst thing cos they don’t want to be there, you don’t want to be there as a fan. As you can’t fake it you are just standing there looking utterly distraught cos you have ruined that vibe yourself.

The Razor’s Edge: Talking of the live show, I have never seen Godflesh and when people talk about seeing Godflesh they say its like an experience, probably similar to when you see Swans or YOB. It’s a more visceral experience than just seeing a band play. When I saw you play at Uprising in Leicester that is what I likened it to. Whether it was one of your bands best gigs, for me it was probably one of the best gigs I’ve seen in years. The sonic power that you guys had on that day that was totally different to a lot of bands on that bill. I knew the music but I wasn’t expecting what I saw when you played. I know when people come up to you at show you probably don’t want to speak to them and rightly so you don’t who they are but…

Paul: No I love it, sometimes I absolutely love it though. Everything is juxtaposed. I really don’t like people until I start talking to them and then I love it. I love that interaction and that show you talk about. For us it was another show, we had a great time with the promoter watching other bands. We were in a really good mood and that can create such a good vibe onstage. As soon as we got on there we were loving it. They are the best moments. Having a shit one, it does happen but not very often.

The Razor’s Edge: How are you going to choose which of the new songs to play?

Paul: On the last tour we did two. We did ‘Unplugged’ and ‘Asylum’. ‘Asylum’ because it is so quick, a two minute blast, it worked once and didn’t work twice, but you’ve got to iron these things out. Every single time we went with ‘Unplugged’ it was like tingles on my neck the way it was working. So I really want to do the album in full and we were going to do that at Arctangent before that got cancelled. We are going to pay them all, that’s a rule we have. There is no song that we put on a record that we can’t play anymore. So even like those noise experiments that the guys have done, we are going to try and get set up for that. It’s really exciting; I want to play them all.

The Razor’s Edge: I am a subscriber to Holy Roar and I believe ‘Close’ is the subscriber option so I am looking forward to getting that. Obviously I’ve been listening to it on my phone and with speakers but its not the same as putting the vinyl on and hearing one song after the other.

Paul: There’s a slightly different mix as well between the vinyl and the digital. There is a lot more ambient noise on the vinyl buried in the backgrounds. You will hear it if you’ve got a decent set up and you’ll be like, Wow that wasn’t in there. That was done on purpose for people that actually spend money on the product.

The Razor’s Edge: Cool, I will look forward to that. It’s a shame as everyone is in the same positions re cancellation of different festivals and gigs. Will this affect the momentum of the album release?

Paul: We were going to release it in August and they (Holy Roar) said you can release it in June. I was like why not. I just want it out there. It’s a weird time, it’s unprecedented. There’s going to be albums delayed all over the place so why not bring ours forward. At least do something contrary. Even in August I don’t think we are going to be able to play live so let’s do it now. We will have something out at the end of next year so we will worry about that then. Let’s do all we can, except play live with this one. We’ve got a selection of gigs potentially lined up, we don’t know whether we should even bother announcing. It’s the weirdest thing. I manage bands as well and we are all in the same boat. Everyone has cancelled tours, festivals, it’s horrible.

The Razor’s Edge: Are bands booking gigs then?

Paul: Even September is starting to fall through. Not for everything. Just a few promoters are saying we don’t want to announce now as we’ve got a feeling it isn’t going to go ahead. Speaking to promoters they are all saying it’s going to be 2021 before gigs start happening. These are big and small promoters. I am worried for the health of it. I don’t want people to be going to gigs in September and October and spreading or being a cause. No band wants to be part of it. They don’t want to be part of causing problems. At the same time we all want to get out there and play live but at the same time we are all responsible human beings. It’s the worst situation for live music ever.

The Razor’s Edge: I think as fans hopefully if we can we can buy some physical merch. I’ve been off work but been in a position where I have been able to buy a vinyl once a week on bandcamp. I picked up that Calligram one that you spoke about on your own podcast. It’s unbelievable. You are in a band, you must know the margins must be so tight. Hopefully people will buy some band merch and people aren’t just out there listening only on Spotify and that those people have a conscience who really want to support the band but cant get to see that band.

Paul: This is what I would say about that. OHHMS were proper lucky. We got to finish a tour a week before lockdown was going to be happening. I have heart palpitations thinking of the amount of cuddles and handshakes I was giving people. Even when we were playing I was in the crowd cuddling people thanking them for coming. With regards to all this that’s going on now as a fan, like you say, we don’t need support. We got that money from that tour. We managed to finish paying off any costs for the album, we were so lucky. So many more bands were not. In total I think we’ve lost £2000 because of festival appearances and things that we had prepared for that and that’s nothing compared to a ton of other bands at higher level than us. If you can, yeah grab a t shirt, its going to make a world of difference. It going to mean that when that band go back to practicing, you buying that t shirt is going to be an hour and a bit in a practice room.

The Razor’s Edge: When I found out as a Holy Roar subscriber we get ‘Close’, I thought what can I do. So I ordered the T shirt. I have to say that artwork on the t shirt and indeed the album is stunning. Who came up with that? The dragonfly idea?

Paul: Ruth Stanley was the artist otherwise known as ‘Monomoth’. As far as I am aware if there is a carcass on the side of the road she will take it and make art out of it. She also gets things donated like dragonflies. What you are looking at there is an actual photograph of a dragonfly even though it looks like a drawing. It’s a dead dragonfly that was donated to her and she has just gone to town on making artwork out of dead but real animals. I was transfixed but it. When you get the vinyl it’s going to be great to look at cos it’s in big. You see all the veins running through and it suddenly becomes alive which is why, another reason why we open that album with ‘Alive’.

The Razor’s Edge: It was on the Instagram feed where I think you linked the nine pictures to make the complete picture. When you scroll through the feed you feel this is how an album cover can make a huge difference to the whole package. You think of the Spotify era where people won’t see that. You’ve just explained you can see the veins, it’s a real thing and that artist has gone to town. She’s gone out of her way, it’s not just a photo of something out of a magazine it’s a proper piece of artwork. That’s an inspiring thing.

Paul: There’s loads of intricacies with it as well. The thing I like the most is there are the three lines going through it that are diamond shaped. That’s because it’s the third part of a trilogy. Our first two eps were parts one and two and then this is finishing it off. The first one was about the food that we consume, the second about animals and the third about humanity. As soon as she came up with the idea I was like ‘Thank you’. It suits everything else that we have done as well.

The Razor’s Edge: Do Holy Roar give you complete creative control?

Paul: Yeah, never get involved unless they really don’t like something. So far they’ve never not liked something so we are lucky. I can imagine if they really didn’t like something they would say, cos they are very honest.

The Razor’s Edge: On ‘Exist’ the subject matter was animal cruelty and on this album you’ve chosen something that’s pretty hard hitting as well. I wanted to touch upon the First song on ‘Exist’, ‘Subjects’. Last year you released the single ‘Murder is Murder is Murder’. Whose idea was it to pull the song (‘Murder is Murder is Murder’) from the end of ‘Subjects’ and put it forward as its own song and a single?

Paul: It was because this film maker that we glad employed called Craig Murray, he also does stuff for Mogwai and Converge, we were working with him and were going to do two shows at Arctangent this year. One of them was on the main stage with a huge screen behind us with Craig Murrays film on it. We were going to do the whole of ‘Subjects’ live but we wanted to have that in the bag to tantalise people and whenever we play live its always that part of the song that people seem to gravitate towards. I asked Chainy cos it was one of his song and he was ‘yeah, that’s absolutely fine’. When we play it live and that riff starts up it’s the one that gets the biggest cheer.

The Razor’s Edge: I went for a run the other day and ‘Subjects’ came on the headphones. I was near the end of my run and I thought I won’t stop till the end. My five mile run turned into a seven and a half mile run!

Paul: That’s the thing, its not a song you can run an errand to. Learning it it’s so hard. Learning it is so hard. I tend to learn songs by having them on in the background so it becomes second nature. I've got my phone full of riffs that I listen to all the time and as soon as the vocal melody comes then great. I couldn’t do it with that its 22 minutes and it wasn’t like it came in bits and pieces. Chainy had the thing worked out from beginning to end. In fact it was over half an hour and we just had to chisel it down to make it work for my voice. The guy is a nutcase!

The Razor’s Edge: He sounds a nutcase, but he sounds a really focused individual though.

Paul: That’s the thing, all he thinks about 24/7 is music. He is utterly obsessed. I hope it never runs out because we may well run out. Yes, he is one of those individuals that can think of nothing but music. For some reason it never goes into burnout. Whenever I get totally focused on something it burns out. It doesn’t happen with him, it’s very strange.

The Razor’s Edge: You seem to be juggling all-sorts. You are working for the music management company, you may be working full time in your own job at the moment, you are doing all the stuff with OHHMS, you are watching horror movies 24/7. How do you find time to do anything else?

Paul: It’s odd. I always have a lot of spare time. This week though has been particularly busy. One of the bands that I work with, they’ve just got their record deal this week so that’s been awesome. I do the podcast with Daniel, so we stay tight as friends cos he is not in OHHMS anymore and we don’t get to see each other so that’s an excuse to get together once a week. With the music business as it is at the moment I have not seen reduction of my workload yet, although next month its definitely going to happen. So I am expecting a big lack of income as there’s no gigs to make money from. I also work for the council doing homeless stuff and the moment that’s really busy as there is loads of domestic issues happening with people realising they don’t actually get on and they are trapped with each other every hour of the day.

The Razor’s Edge: Despite all that, there is a real chemistry coming across with yourself and Dan it’s refreshing for that hour on a Saturday, you can defiantly see that you two have grown up and you’ve got a real connection there. I have picked up on some new bands as a result of listening to that show. It’s strange podcasting isn’t it just listening to people waffle on its one of those phenomenon.

Paul: The rest of my day is sitting with my wife, listening to podcasts, stroking the dog. If I've got a film on I am not just focused on that I’ll be doing emails for OHHMS or something. I don’t have a minute in my day where I am not doing something. I don’t like chill time, I have to be busy. I worry if I am not doing something, someone else is doing that thing and I’ve lost control. I need to be in control.

The Razor’s Edge: It’s mad really, I work full time, though off at the moment, I’ve got two little girls and my days are so full at the moment. I don’t know when I go back to work how I am going to be able to fit in everything I need to do. Not that I do an awful lot, I am not a musician. I admin on a thrash metal group on facebook and it just seems with that and everything else, likewise I am so busy, no time. You think where did I have this time before lockdown. In amongst lockdown people’s lives have changed and we’ve had to adapt and had to look at new ways of managing our own time. Hopefully people will be able to seek some kind of solace in whatever enjoyment they have found when it all moves on.

Paul: Agreed. The lockdown has affected me in that I can’t go out. Everything else its exactly the same. I don’t miss anything. I am quite content in my little bubble doing what I need to do. It’s a weird feeling. You mentioned that you do that thrash metal group. Do you know that band Cryptic Shift? They are from the UK and are quite new. I want to mention them they have just released a new album it’s called ‘Visitations from Enceladus’. I saw them live and I thought, "Yes", there is a UK thrash band that is new, fresh, young and doing something interesting that I can really get with. They are a bit like Vekto’. I am well in to them, so please give them a shoutout.

The Razor’s Edge: You also mentioned ‘Necrodeath’ on the podcast. That album was amazing, so keep the recommendations coming, that’s another way how we discover new music.

Paul: That was so good as well, how had I never heard of them before they are like 100 yrs old!